Talk:Orseck Garal
So, according to the codex, _King_ Endrin attended the first match held at the Grand Proving Arena in Minrathous. According to the World of Thedas, Darinius built a guest home for _King_ Endrin. And overall we are given the impression that he was the only ruler at the time. There is no way to reconcile these accounts with the Green Ronin version where Endrin became king after Garal. There might be some way to combine the stories if one was a king while another one was a high king, but I can't think of one at the moment. 18:12, July 2, 2013 (UTC) :No, there is no way to reconcile the differing accounts of The World of Thedas, the codex entries, and Green Ronin's guides, all of which can be considered lore (as on a wiki thread recently it was determined that Green Ronin material is canonical as they consult with BioWare). There is also the issue that the codex entry on the history of Orzammar states that Garal moved the capital, which is what a king would do, and presumably what made him a Paragon. I'm going to pose a question about this on the BSN. If/when I get a response, I'll update Endrin and Orseck's pages accordingly. LadyAeducan (talk) 23:53, July 3, 2013 (UTC) ::About that paragon thing. Weren't the first paragons winners of the Grand Provings, held AFTER the capital was already moved to Orzammar? I think we should remove the line about him becoming a paragon due to moving the capital, as it is speculation, I'm afraid. Also, weren't there lots of kings back in the day? Each dwarven kingdom seperate, yet united under the capital city. And I believe I read something about a High King, a king who ruled all the other kings. Have we got any information whether Garal or Stonehammer were just kings or High Kings? Perhaps Garal was the king of Orzammar, but Stonehammer was the High King of the dwarven kingdoms. Henio0 (talk) 11:57, April 6, 2014 (UTC) :::Hi Henio0. You're right about the winners of the Grand Provings becoming the first of Orzammar's Paragons after the capital was moved, per WoT. But the time of Garal's becoming a Paragon is unclear and he may have been a Paragon of Kal-Sharok rather than of Orzammar, since he originated there, and was adopted as an Orzammar Paragon after the move--or Orzammar made him a Paragon right after the move because of the move itself, as I think. We don't know whether the first Orzammar Paragons emerging from the Provings relates to him at all--it might but Codex entry: Orzammar History: Chapter One calls him Paragon at the time period of the move, so I have always thought he was a Paragon prior to those Grand Provings--truly the "First Paragon" in spite of what Stonehammer is called. But there is no information to verify this, of course, which is the problem. :::As for Garal's Paragon deed, it's speculation but it's also the only deed attributed to him, until WoT attributed the move to Stonehammer. As nothing else has been mentioned about what Garal may have done, it seemed to be the critical deed that made him a Paragon. I'll remove it as speculation, however, since we don't know for sure. We simply don't know much about his deeds at all, unfortunately. Honestly, I think he became lost in the lore and was put aside in favor of Stonehammer, as he ceases to be mentioned after DAO and outside of the tabletop RPG guides. I'm going to try resurrecting my old BSN thread about the lore discrepancy to see if the devs can corroborate anything about Garal or provide any new information. :::High Kings are mentioned in the tabletop guide but not officially in-game that I can find. According to the tabletop guide, Garal was King of Kal-Sharok. As it was the capital, he would have been High King by default, with Kings of other lesser thaigs autonomous but answerable to him. He is not called High King officially but as the King of the capital, I think he would have been. When the capital moved (and it's called "his" capital in the tabletop guide) he would have been High King of Orzammar then, and Stonehammer after him. Stonehammer is only called King in WoT, not High King, but to my mind ruling the capital makes one a High King. So I think they both were High Kings. Certainly in DAO Endrin is acting as High King of Orzammar by demanding Kal-Sharok's submission. :::But the above is mostly my conjecture since we know so little. So, I'm going to see if I can get any further information on these holes in the lore from the forum. The lore discrepancy has been a bone of contention for me since I created the Garal and Stonehammer pages. If I hear anything I'll update the pages. Thanks for your interest, Henio0. LadyAeducan (talk) 01:07, April 8, 2014 (UTC)